Repair of £25,000 Phono Stage that Tom Evans said couldn't be done. 2 Channel
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Clicks Member 47 posts
Clicks
The best bit of the video for the non-technical was when he took the heavy side casework apart, basically 4 x heavy plastic/resin squares to stop them vibrating they were "damped" by eight slips of cardboard wedged between the sides. As this was a £25k piece of gear I am sure it was special audiophile cardboard. Tom Evans gear has been a "marmite" product forever. Some say he is a genius, others think it is Premier League audiophile snake oil. Must be some people on here who have bought/used his stuff ?
I have a Tom Evans designed PSU and pre-amp. The packaging of the PSU is very basic (an ugly metal box), but I’m okay with that as it sits out of sight. The pre-amp, on the other hand, is in-view and was re-packaged by Michell, using the typical black acrylic of their style from that period.
 
When Michell added amplification options to their turntable offerings, the circuitry was from Tom Evans and/or Graham Fowler, with Michell providing the packaging. So my system is a pre-amp designed by TE and packaged by JM, power amps designed by GF and packaged by JM, phono stage both designed and packaged by GF, and turntables both designed and packaged by JM.
 
Having a system based on the skills and knowledge of just TE, GF and JM works for me.
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Macca Member 421 posts
Macca
For £25K I'd want a gold case with diamonds for the buttons.
 
Build quality wasn't terrible if it was £500
 
Having the video taken down indicates that the price of the product is indefensible. But, as long as price continues to be directly equated with performance, this practice will continue.
 
'I saw you coming.'
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Charlie Chan topoxforddoc Member 25 posts
Charlie Chan topoxforddoc
Touché
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HIGHWAY61 Member 94 posts
HIGHWAY61
A few specials were made with clear sides, so at least you could see what you were paying for :
 
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Paullongcase Member 15 posts
Paullongcase
Response from Tom Evan’s to concerns -
 
 
Hello Paul.
 
Thank you kindly for your email. I am happy to provide you with the details from our perspective.
 
As you well know there are always 2 sides to every story.
 
If you watched the video you will have heard his opening line, “the unit was damaged in the post” but he fails to mention the truth.
 
It was him ( 'bodge it Mark') that posted the unit to us but as I said he fails to mention he posted an expensive amplifier with the local post office and wrapped it in a couple of sheets bubble wrap and placed it in a card box.
 
On arrival here we noticed a rattle from the card box and after opening it we could see the units acrylic box was broken into several parts and 4 of the metal corner parts had deep dents.
 
To make matters worse we could clearly see that the unit had been previously opened by Mark, this also voids the manufacturers warranty.
 
Even so we offered to rebuild the unit into a new box and provide a new set of painted metalwork and also repair the fault correctly.
 
When we ship the units out they are sent with either Fedex, DHL, or UPS and are double boxed, the outer boxes are either made from plywood or tough Pelican cases.
 
If you take a look at all the carriers terms and conditions you will note they will not cover any insurance costs on anything valuable that has not been double boxed correctly.
 
We have sent out nearly 80 units worldwide without ANY damage, there are units that have been sent as far away as N.Z, the far east and the USA.
 
The repair he did is only temporary as the IC will also be damaged, the AVX TAP series professional grade Tantalum capacitor that failed would have also damaged the IC it’s connected to internally.
 
The capacitor failed because the customer that owns the unit pulled the inputs whilst the unit was powered up, something we strongly advise all our customer against doing !
 
The IC’s are graded in a test rig before being placed into the pcb, we would have replaced the whole pcb with a new one to be certain of future reliability.
 
We remove the ident of our IC’s to stop the units being cloned and to protect our work.
 
The design is a unique ‘recipe' learned from 40 years of working in audio, the retail price is related to it’s performance, however we don't sell them at the retail asking price.
 
They are sold directly to shops and distributors worldwide, we are paid 40% of the retail figure.
 
Unlike 'bodge it Mark’ we don't work from a shed in a back garden and have overheads / wages and rent to pay so the price we charge has to cover the costs.
 
As for his repair of the unit, it will fail again in the near future because of the internal damage to the IC and the glued casework he did will have more scars than Frankenstein’s bride, a truly unsightly bodge- up !
 
You can fully understand this now from my position, he leaves me no choice other than to protect my business and reputation by taking legal action against him.
 
Other YouTuber’s should take note and think carefully before they post as they are not immune from legal action !
 
Kind regards.
 
Tom.
 
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bigfool1956 Member 1,293 posts
bigfool1956
Louis Rossman has something to say about this
 
We are normal and we dig Bert Weedon
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bigfool1956 Member 1,293 posts
bigfool1956
Having seen the responses here, and without knowing enough about the specific case to fall on one side of the fence or the other, I think this highlights the way that kangaroo "trials" of people and manufacturers can enact on social media. We had a case recently where the same sort of thing happened and everyone was ready to crucify the manufacturer when the problem turned out to have been caused by an affiliate in the USA who was subsequently removed.
 
If we were to look at Tom's response and 100% buy into that, then one could see a motive for the original video, which would be to avoid responsibility for a large bill from TEAD. (This is not to throw shade on Mark, just as an example of what COULD be happening in any case like this).
 
It's like bad reviews online. I once read a one star review of the Project VCE record cleaner saying the thread for the clamp was poor quality when it was clear from his own text that he had cross threaded it and then instead of unscrewing and threading properly he had applied serious force to try and screw the clamp down. One star for his stupidity.
 
Like the saying goes, mud sticks and people remember that even if the mud is cleaned off and everything is as sparkly as it should have been. The video from Louis Rossman (the "I have an $80 amp" audiophile 🤷‍♂️) that I posted above would be an example of this IMO.
We are normal and we dig Bert Weedon
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Alan Oscroft Member 345 posts
Alan Oscroft
It was him ( 'bodge it Mark') that posted the unit to us but as I said he fails to mention he posted an expensive amplifier with the local post office and wrapped it in a couple of sheets bubble wrap and placed it in a card box.
Hmm, I don't see how that ties in with Tom Evans posting it to Mark for repair, and it arriving with Mark damaged in transit.
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Beobloke Member 219 posts
Beobloke
Obviously there are two sides to every story, but I feel Tom’s petty name-calling doesn’t do him any favours here, although I appreciate he probably didn’t intend the email’s content to become public.
 
I’m afraid I also have a low opinion of any manufacturer that grinds identifiers off ICs.
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Mark Member 43 posts
Mark
Hmm, I don't see how that ties in with Tom Evans posting it to Mark for repair, and it arriving with Mark damaged in transit.
Perhaps if this was the sequence of events: (lots of supposition here!)
  1. Owner asks Mark to repair it.
  2. Mark says no, it would be better to send it to Tom Evans as it's very complicated and very expensive.
  3. Mark posts it off - it gets damaged.
  4. Tom Evans says it's seriously damaged and going to cost a fortune, possibly not even worth it compared to a new one.
  5. Some back and forth results in the unit being posted back to Mark who then repairs it himself as there's nothing to lose now.
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Bob It Cost How Much!?! Member 354 posts
Bob It Cost How Much!?!
Personally, I avoid Tom Evans stuff as he removes the identifiers off the components, so you have to get him to repair it (he thinks).
 
I did have one bit once, it failed and was fixed by a knowledgeable person and he wasn't complimentary about the build. I think the words "bag of shite" were in there.
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long. Another perfect day down at the funny farm.
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Alan Oscroft Member 345 posts
Alan Oscroft
Perhaps if this was the sequence of events: (lots of supposition here!)
  1. Owner asks Mark to repair it.
  2. Mark says no, it would be better to send it to Tom Evans as it's very complicated and very expensive.
  3. Mark posts it off - it gets damaged.
  4. Tom Evans says it's seriously damaged and going to cost a fortune, possibly not even worth it compared to a new one.
  5. Some back and forth results in the unit being posted back to Mark who then repairs it himself as there's nothing to lose now.
Interesting series of possibilties, yes.
 
Watching the original again(*), I see it arrived with Mark with a label saying "... Master Groove, Trashed in transit to us". So it does sound like the damage was done when it was sent to them, but Mark doesn't say who originally sent it where, or whether he was the first in the chain to originally see it.
 
The focus on low-noise design does need high precision components, and a lot of component matching - if you parallel four op-amps, you have to get their outputs very close. So, very labour intensive to produce, I'd think.
 
As for Mark's sneering dismissal of the tantalum cap, they do have their advantages, and if Tom Evans is using AVX TAP series then yes, those are high quality with relatively low failure rate.
 
And doing the bodge repair on the case? Surely if he'd just fixed the electronics (and he's doing it for Tom Evans) then the maker would have been able to supply new case parts?
 
Watching this with what I know now, I do get a hindsight feel that there might have been some bad blood between them at the time. And I think it's unfair to judge based on the limited information we have. We absolutely don't have the full story here, and I certainly won't condemn Tom Evans on this.
 
I do think Tom Evans chose a poor way to respond though, by getting the YouTube taken down (especially as watching it again has fueled my doubts). He might have done better by being open and presenting his own side of the story.
 
(*It's on archive.org, I'll include a link in a separate post.)
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Alan Oscroft Member 345 posts
Alan Oscroft
The original is at...
 
 
(I'm including it in a separate post in case I'm breaking any forum rules, so please remove this if I am).
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dangermouse Member 9 posts
dangermouse
Unlike 'bodge it Mark’ we don't work from a shed in a back garden
 
 
An object lesson in how to lose any credibility you might have had by using an incredibly dumb insult. 🙄
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savvypaul Trade Member 1,121 posts
savvypaul
 
An object lesson in how to lose any credibility you might have had by using an incredibly dumb insult. 🙄
I know a few skilful designers who are not very skilled as diplomats.
 
I don't think I know any skilled PR professionals who are also skilled EEs.
 
Sometimes you have to choose your compromises.
 
The one who would whistle to Throbbing Gristle...
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Macca Member 421 posts
Macca
Still doesn't mention what the copyright infringement was supposed to be. Plus insults and empty threats of legal action. Not great.
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Bob It Cost How Much!?! Member 354 posts
Bob It Cost How Much!?!
Still doesn't mention what the copyright infringement was supposed to be. Plus insults and empty threats of legal action. Not great.
I suspect the circuit diagrams he created and put into the video.
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long. Another perfect day down at the funny farm.
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Bob It Cost How Much!?! Member 354 posts
Bob It Cost How Much!?!
Surely, it is counter productive by a manufacturer to make maintenance a pain, it puts people off buying it.
I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long. Another perfect day down at the funny farm.
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Jarvis Member 4 posts
Jarvis
I suspect the circuit diagrams he created and put into the video.
Surely they are copyright by Mark as he created them for his own reference to assist in the repair. He didn't copy their circuit, he reverse-engineered it, crucially without creating an actual copy. But maybe with UK copyright law where we don't have "fair use" exceptions for commentary/critique, etc. he could be liable? Hell, I watched the video, maybe I'm an infringer? 😆
 
One thing that was copyright by Tom Evans and shown in the video were the screenshots of his website including his claims of "greatest dynamic range in the World", akin to "Alien technology", etc.
 
The true sequence of events is the main mystery here: No way that a company would seek to get one of their own products repaired by somebody they themselves referred to as Bodge-it Mark.
Linn Akurate DSM/2, NAD C352 (power section), PURE DRX-702ES, PMC TB2+ on Partington Super-Dreadnaughts
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Macca Member 421 posts
Macca
Surely they are copyright by Mark as he created them for his own reference to assist in the repair. He didn't copy their circuit, he reverse-engineered it, crucially without creating an actual copy. But maybe with UK copyright law where we don't have "fair use" exceptions for commentary/critique, etc. he could be liable? Hell, I watched the video, maybe I'm an infringer? 😆
 
One thing that was copyright by Tom Evans and shown in the video were the screenshots of his website including his claims of "greatest dynamic range in the World", akin to "Alien technology", etc.
 
The true sequence of events is the main mystery here: No way that a company would seek to get one of their own products repaired by somebody they themselves referred to as Bodge-it Mark.
The main mystery is why anyone would pay £25K for an MC phono stage.
 
The service manual he made cannot be the cause of the copyright claim as he doesn't show any details of it in the video and in any case isn't the circuit just the Burr Brown application note?
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